"Pater noster, qui es in caelis
Sanctificetur nomen tuum;
Adveniat regnum tuum.
Fiat voluntas tua
Sicut in caelo et in terra
Panem nostrum quotidianum da nobis hodie.
Et dimitte nobis debita nostra,
Sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris.
Et ne nos inducas in tentationem;
Sed libera nos a malo," Father Ian sang as he sat in his office. The King James Bible sat open in front of him, and his notes for Sunday's service were placed all over his desk. He took a sip from his silver flask. The liquor burnt his throat as it slid down and it felt good. He picked up a yellow legal sheet, with the end of his sermon scrawled on it. He took another sip and began to sing the Lord's Prayer again. He heard a crash down the hall and he jumped to his feet. He grabbed the desk for balance. It was late. He glanced at the clock on his desk. Five to twelve. He had locked up the sacuary before he had retreated to his office. He took another sip from his flask for bravery before he headed towards the noise. he looked into the House of the Lord. Candle light flicked against the walls. He moved slowly towards the church. he heard laughter inside. He peeked his head in. A woman, dressed all in black, stood at the altar. she seemed to be searching for something. a large wolf was lying across the asle. He cleared his throat. The woman turned around.
"Ah! Father Ian!" she called. she walked down the asle to him and wrapped him in a hug. He could feel evilness roll off in waves from her. He whispered a prayer. She laughed.
"Now now, Father Ian," she said, "God is ignoring this. Really, i'll get out of your way in just a second but i need one thing from you." She put her arm around his shoulder and lead up to the front of the church. He followed her up but didn't say anything. He knew that it would be best to keep quiet and to let the woman speak. As they neared the wolf, it lifted it's head and growled at the priest. the woman stepped over the animal, as if it wasn't even there.
Added on May 4, 2006
"I don't want anything really big. I just want the strongest power in the universe. Now before you get on your high horse and tell me that's God, blah blah blah. i have devised a way to gather power. i have the hunter out of the way, i have the girl but now this is where you come in," she said. Father remained silent. The woman faced the animal.
"Bade, darling, human form please," she said and the wolf transformed into a man. Father Ian swallowed. This didn't look good. He closed his eyes and began to pray. That was his only option right now. The woman laughed beside him.
"Father, i told you. God isn't paying attention to this and therefore He isn't going to hear your prayers. Somethings are meant to happen, and i know this is one of them. But don't worry, it's not like i'm going to split hell open and allow the demons to come out."
"Then what?" he growled, finally speaking, "what is it that you are after?" Bade grabbed a hold of Father Ian and slammed him against the altar.
"Well, i have been told that you tell the hunter things. you know things and see things and i can't have you going to the hunter and helping him. i really doubt that we scared him off our tracks for good. so what we need from you is to be out of the picture," She began to walk down the aisle, "I hoped you had a good life, Father." Bade transformed back into the wolf and ran to the woman's side. The couple disappeared as the church was engulfed with flames.
i want to write more.. but.. my entire right side aches.. and i can't concentrate. i'm feeling conflicted... i'm going ot dry my hair and then watch some tv.
More Added on May 4, 2006
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It's a Mass...silly Protestant emme *pats her on the head*
O salutaris Hostia
Quae caeli pandis ostium.
Bella premunt hostilia;
Da robur fer auxilium.
Uni trinoque Domino
Sit sempiterna gloria:
Qui vitam sine termino,
Nobis donet in patria.
Amen
And besides, the Catholic Church has a kind of mystique about it that lends itself quite nicely to these kinds of stories....protestant churches are either happy-happy or cultish...or neutral...but not mystical *pats them all on their collective heads*
Most churches I have been to how ever wouldn't use KJV. You'd have been interested at the lecture my parents attended in Ottawa 2 years ago.
So, confessions can be heard in the Anglican communion, it appears from google, the various Orthodox churches, and the Catholic Church. Which ones refer to their spiritual leaders as "Father"?
I did know that the monarch is the head of the Anglican church, but i've always wondered who would win that constitutional battle if any of them ever converted? Scenarios anyone?
but for the record, trev, though my church (which was HIGH angelican) didn't hear confession (however, i don't remember saying anything about father ian hearing confessions.. i now riley made his presense known with "father forgive me for i have sinned".. which is a catholic saying.. anyway, i used to call my ministers at my old church "father".
to be honest.. i don't know what father ian is.. i do picture my old church in my head as i write.. and while i may be leaning more towards the catholic views, i really don't know too much about it.. besides the fact that i don't understand some of the beliefs. like the whole Jesus eat me.. but meh.. that's why i'm excluded :'( *sobs*
anyway.. to conclude- FILL!! FILL!! or i will cry :'(
52. The Jews therefore debated among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53. Jesus therefore said to them, Verily, verily, I say to you, Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have not life in you. 54. He who eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55. For my flesh is truly food, and my blood is truly drink. 56. He who eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live on account of my Father; and he who eateth me, even he shall live for my sake. 58. This is the bread which hath come down from heaven; not as your fathers ate manna, and are dead; he who eateth this bread shall live for ever.
60. When many of his disciples heard it, they said, "This teaching is difficult; who can accept it?" 61. But Jesus, being aware that his disciples were complaining about it, said to them, "Does this offend you?..." 66. Because of this many of his disciples turned back and no longer went about with him.
So, the point of this passage is that Jesus lost disciples because they couldn't accept the truth. Sorry about skipping 4 verses, but they're really not that important here. Jesus wasn't speaking in metaphor or parable when he said that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood. That kind of teaching would be easy. But rather, we see that the Jews around Him identified His words as a difficult teaching, and Jesus didn't correct them, showing us that they grasped the concept right away. He even lost followers over this, and He still didn't try to set them straight. Why? Because they already had it right, they just couldn't deal with it. Fast forward to the Last Supper (where Jesus said "Everybody gather on this side of the table"). This is the fulfillment of Jesus's earlier words. He said earlier 51."I am the living bread." In the Last Supper, He tells His Apostles, and by extension, us that the bread is His body, and He gives it to us to eat, instituting the sacrament of the Eucharist, one of 7 sacraments instituted by the Late Great JC designed to be outwards signs of a conferral of inward grace.
Baptism: Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"
Eucharist: John 6:51-66, see above
Holy Orders, Confirmation, and Confession: John 20:22-23 "He breathed on them and said "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
Holy Orders, later: Acts6:6 The Apostles lay hands on the first deacons
Acts 13:3 The Apostles lay their hands on Paul and Barnabas
Confirmation, later: Acts 8:14-17 The people of Samaria were baptized earlier, then received the Holy Spirit when the Apostles laid hands on them.
Last Rites: Mark 6:13 The apostles anointed ppl with oil, they were healed
Marriage: Matthew 19:6 God joins husband and wife together
If you want to discuss anything specific about any of these, reply, and we shall discuss.
But...it's actually, "Bless me Father, for I have sinned"
this needs proof. there is no such things as an infallible human (except Jesus)... and yes, you need biblical proof!
annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd...go
anyway the idea was that is a pope excempt from flaws or mistake buts that a "true pope" wouldn't be found trying to corrupt "The sheep" as there have declared themselves (and I don't know if you know how a pope is named but I can explain later) to be pope and such. In fct tehre was a guy who did something like that not to long ago. I digress. Then they run off and preach heresy.
I believe the men you are referring to are the antipopes though...i'm not sure where to go from there, except that there is a set method for electing the next pope, and anyone elected in this manner automatically receives the charism of infallibility.
Now, it is true that it is not "his church to do so", and it may sound like a technicality, but the Pope doesn't "make" rules, he teaches or clarifies them, because they are God's rules, and the pope is only telling us what he has discerned through doing his homework.
So, yes, most definitely, it is a literal infallibility, but its scope is quite limited, and as i recall, it has only been used 3 times, the most recent being the definition of the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, over 100 years ago.
Richard quote: "Pop quiz: what is the minimum amount the pope can get right about faith or morals? Zero, cuz if he doesn't do his homework, he can't write down the right answer either."
Biblical basis: Matthew 16:18-19 "And I tell you, you are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose of earth will be loosed in heaven."
Interpretation: This is the passage where Jesus informs his Apostles that Peter will be their leader and that he will be infallible (refer to above definition, as we know that Peter did sin when he denied Jesus). So, there are a few images here, most of them quite important. The first is the name-change. Jesus renames Simon, indicating a special relationship between them, cool but not directly relating to infall...Next, the keys of something are given to someone in authority over it. Finally, "binding and loosing" is a Jewish legal term indicating the power of rule-making. Now, onto a question of precedence. Do the affairs and spiritual ruler (Peter) of earth really have authority over what rules go on in heaven, as this passage seems to indicate? No, most definitely not. To say this would be to say that Peter has authority over God Himself. Rather, this verse tells us that the rules that Peter binds and looses on earth are the rules that God Himself desires.
So how do we know that the subsequent popes also possess this charism of infallibility? Because Jesus says that the power of Hades (a nice word for death) will not prevail against the Church. The powers of hades are supernatural powers, showing us that the church has supernatural protection, which means that God will not let the church fall into error in matters of faith and morals (the only 2 things that matter). So since God's promise here is given with an open-ended time limit, we know that it will endure for all time and through all popes.
First and foremost, we get to have Sacred Scriptures. That's right, my plucky, Protestant pal, first came the Church, then Scripture. Since the pope and the college of bishops (when speaking together, as at an Ecumenical Council) are each infallible (the first council, Council of Jerusalem, Acts 15), we know which books are inspired, and therefore are to be included in the canon. Don't have an infallible leader? You've got nothing to go on except the Council of Jamnia, a Jewish council that rejected the entire New Testament.
Second, we get Sacred Tradition (that's radition with a capital T). Sacred Tradition is composed of various beliefs that while they are supported by Scripture, it may not be obvious to the cursory reader, ie, purgatory, the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption.
Thirdly, but certainly not lastly (although it is the last i will treat here, as it is getting late), we know what Absolute Truth is. The Catholic Church is the only church that has never changed a doctrinal or moral teaching. We have nigh on 2000 years of theology, philosophy, morality, and doctrine that not once has contradicted itself. If you're feeling rather intrepid, and you think you've found something contradictory, ask yourself which one was written by a pope?
PS. You may consider this a challenge.
Oh, and just so you know, the doxology in the Didache is not in the context of the Lord's Prayer.
I should point out that St. Paul is able to tell us to imitate him not through papal infallibility, but through the inspiration that God gave him to write the second letter to Timothy.
We can be assured of her actual existence, because we have first-class artifacts of her, ie. parts of her BODY, which, owing to the scholarship and tracking abilities of the ancient and modern Church, we can be quite sure that it really is her. Also, she was a friend of St. Patrick, as shown in the "Book of Armagh", whose authenticity is according to the Catholic Encyclopedia, beyond question.
For more info, or what i just said in longer format, please see http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/027
And much like we find today, chances are there were many people named for her as well. The fact remains that the name was originally Gaelic and stemming from a person from the Celtic belief system. :) It didn't originate in Catholicism.
Ni bu Sanct Brigid suanach
Ni bu huarach im sheire Dé,
Sech ni chiuir ni cossens
Ind nóeb dibad bethath che.
(Saint Brigid was not given to sleep,
Nor was she intermittent about God's love;
Not merely that she did not buy, she did not seek for
The wealth of this world below, the holy one.)
You will note from the site i cited above, that her life is not embellished, she is not supposedly the worker of miracles, all she was was an Irish nun, who founded a convent/monastery, and is now recognized to be in heaven, not as a deity, but as a mere heavenly citizen.
She was Catholic.
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/b/brig
I shall investigate this. My apologies for any inconvenience.